Thursday, May 1, 2008
THE LOVE QUESTION
As some of my students will explain, we have been discussing the definition of love in my different classes. Essentially the debate boils down into to primary points. Either love is a choice and we can control who we love, or the objects of our love are beyond our control. If you can tell, I have defined love as a choice to selflessly elevate some other person above yourself in all things. In addition, I believe that all love springs from the very nature of who God is; he is the ultimate source of it. Therefore, when I John 4: 9-11 seems to support my argument. Though God made us and knew we existed, he (if he wished) could have sent us all straight to hell. However, out of his great love, he sent his Son to die on the cross for our sins as a manifestation that he did love us. I believe love, real love mind you, is similar in humans. We have a choice to love our spouses, parents, and friends. If it is not under our control, then are we blaming God for causing us to screw up when we do not meet his standard of loving our neighbor? Certainly not! We must acknowledge the human responsibility of loving people in the right way, as Christ himself loved us. All right. Now, my rant has been short. Let the discussion begin.
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7 comments:
Ahh...the infamous love question. My favorite. This will be the longest comment you have ever received but maybe I can say some of the things I've been trying to express in class. You are correct in quoting 1 John 4:9...it says something along the lines of God manifested his love for us by sending Jesus to die on the cross. However, what I don't see in this verse is God choosing to love us. I don't see him making a decision to love us. I see him choosing to show and prove his love for us by sending his Son. As I recently attended the Franklin Graham festival, Phil Stacey sung a song with the line..."He's not like us, He loves us just because" He doesn't need a reason to love us. I don't think God has to choose to love us, He just does. It is obvious that each human being has a sinful nature...we are born into sin. But God's creation as a whole is so great and beautiful. A perfect creator has the ability to create perfection and in the big scheme of things, that is what God has done. If something is so perfect, you love it. You don't have to try, you just do.
I agree without a doubt that you can choose to put yourself in a situation where you are apt to fall in love. Actually falling in love...I can't say I agree you choose to do that. One of the verses I used in class was Proverbs 6:27-28, labeled in my Bible as Warning Against Adultery. These verses read "Can a man scoop fire into his lap without his clothes being burned? Can a man walk on hot coals without his feet being scorched?" Obviously, he can't. It was dumb to choose such a thing, but once he chose it, he reaped what he sowed. In the same way, a person can choose to be dumb and vulnerable to fall in love with someone...but once they choose that, they can't control what follows.
Next follows some verses that I would say definitely support my argument...Proverbs 5:18-19. "May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. A loving doe, a graceful deer-may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love." The big point in these verses is "captivated." To captivate means to win over; when you are captivated, it seems almost impossible to turn away from what you are captivated by. If you are captivated by her love, it would take more than a choice to stop.
Another verse from Proverbs...14:22. Your Bible reads differently but the NIV says, "Do not those who plot evil go astray? But those who plan what is good find love and faithfulness." If you plan what is good, you find love. You choose to plan, not to love. Also I think if something is a choice, you wouldn't have to find it. Proverbs 21:21 says, "He who pursues righteousness and love finds life, prosperity, and honor." I don't understand why we would have to pursue a choice.
The question you said we definitely boxed you in on was...If love is a choice, then could you just stop loving your wife tomorrow?
You said that if love wasn't a choice, how could some wives just up and leave their husbands? Easily answered, they were never truly in love to begin with. It's just like asking why or how a self-proclaimed Christian could commit suicide or say that they have lost salvation? It is a great possibility that they were never really saved to begin
with.
If love is a choice, then why do some people try to move on but can't? It's not because they are addicted to or obsessed with that person. It's because true love always perseveres and hopes. True love never fails. [1 Corinthians 13]
Another thing...do you agree that the majority of poets are smart? If not, then this point is completely ruined. But I found an excerpt from "The Notebook" by Nicholas Sparks..."Poets often describe love as an emotion that we can't control, one that
overwhelms logic and common sense. That's what it was like for me. I didn't plan on falling in love with you, and I doubt if you planned on falling in love with me. But once we met, it was clear that neither of us could control what was happening to us."
Ok so that is extremely hard to relate back to the Bible but this is what I came up with. We would easily agree that God is perfect, sovreign, and one of the greatest things about him is the mystery, the questions that will remain unanswered on earth. Since God is so perfect, yet mysterious and His greatest gift to us is love [1 Cor. 13:13], then it's easy to see that there could be mystery in love. That's why it's so hard to define. It's uncontrollable and as poets do so often describe, love does overwhelm logic and common sense just like many things from God do.
John 15:9-10. "As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now
remain in my love. If you obey my command, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love." As Christians, if we obey God and follow him, love comes natural. We develop a loving spirit and it's not a choice that causes us to love. It is God who we choose to listen to. In turn, He helps us love others.
I will say, without a doubt, that you can choose how you respond to love. You can control the situations you are put in that could lead to love. Love in itself cannot be chosen.
*Love is not a choice, you make choices out of love.*
Mr. O, I hate to do this, but I'm disagreeing with you. How can love be a choice? Shannon is right in her 2nd paragraph(in her 2 million paragraph comment), you can put yourself in situations that might cause love to happen, but you don't choose to love them! When you are in love, you choose to do things because you love them. If you can prove to me and Shannon that we are wrong by choosing not to love your wife tomorrow, I might start to believe you. But I know you can't just stop loving her. You do see Hollywood couples saying they love each other all the time and then getting a divorce in a couple of weeks. You can use that arguement, but I say that's not a good one because I believe they were never in love in the first place; they were just in it for the publicity and the money.
**LOVE AIN'T A CHOICE!**
Mr. O, I was not really sure what side I was on but I now know that you are exactly right. Though some just disagree with you, I agree with you. Because, I have seen someone who started feeling guity of his 'affection' (b/c of his 'original' girlfriend) and ignoring the one whom he had the feeling called affection. I realized that he 'chose' to 'love' his girlfriend. It might not be that serious love love case, but I think it could be a decent example for students since the situation is kind of easy to understand.
I'm not really sure I've loved anyone else than my family so I might not be tell love is a choice, but I'm just trying.
UM... What I don't really like or enjoy 'loving' is 'love' (affection might 'shallow' love I guess) always hurts someone. There is always 'victim.' It's obviously true that God loves us and He chooses to love us though we always 'hurt' Him. God is just so great though He is hurt, He always 'tries' to love us. And He does! But humans are much worse and weaker than God is, so love always hurts somebody and I don't like that. I guess I siad I don't believe love among people, but I now say I do believe that there is some kind of love things going on. I know that, but I don't really like the 'love' things because I don't want to be hurt by that.
Anyway, I do believe that love is a choice because everyone knows that (they might not realize that they know, though) being in love will hurt them and they 'want to love' STILL. In my opinion, that is just ridiculous and I've been being ridiculous too back then.
Well, I guess people want to ignore the truth that 'love' always hurts somebody and they could be victims of love.
Love is a choice, and I don't really want to love because it will hurt me badly. I love my mom, and that's another case because mom just loves me no matter what I do or no matter who I am. (Oh, that brings another story here. I don't think moms choose to love their kids. That's just in their nature. I'm sure about this.)
So Mr. O, You're absolutely right. LOVE IS A CHOICE.
Min-jeong, it is tough to determine if love is a choice or not if u have never been in love before. when u say love ain't a choice, what kinda love r u tlkin about? because u said "I don't think moms choose to love their kids. That's just in their nature. I'm sure about this." that's saying that love is not a choice. another thing, does love always hurt someody? i have to ask mr. o about this, but i dont think him loving his wife ever hurt anybody. i still think love isn't a choice and you have yet to make me think otherwise.
I've listened to all of these arguments, and I have my doubts on both sides. Mr. O's ideas seem to make sense, and Matt and Shannon's do too. However, I have a question for those of you who think love is not a choice. If it's not a choice, what is it? It's kind of scary to go without defining something so important. In the infamous word of Josh McDowell, "Define your terms!" I'm honestly looking for an answer here. :)
Cheyenne...I find it nearly impossible to define love. Allison Krauss sings in her song, "When You Say Nothing At All,"...'Old Mr. Webster could never define what's being said between your heart and mine.' Love is just love, it can never be explained...but one thing I do know...and Robert Heinlein says it best..."Love is the condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own." When you truly love someone and you see them upset, you can't be completely happy. They laugh, you laugh. They cry, you cry. Why would you choose to let your emotions rest on those of someone else?
OK. It's summer and I'm sitting at home being bored. So I have decided to finally leave a comment. Everyone has brought up some extremely good points on here.
For the longest time I have agreed with Mr. O and said that yes, love is a choice. However, after some of the things I have been going through and seen, I am not so sure anymore. I believe that it is possible that love can be a choice and not a choice at the same time. Love is so complex and mysterious that some aspects can of it we can choose, but others you may not be able to choose. I believe that there is emotion involved in love, although love is not an emotion. And I don't really think you can choose what you feel. But you can choose how to react to what you feel. You can choose the situations that you put yourself in, and you normally know the outcome of certain situations.
Min-jeong brings up a good point. She said that alot of the time getting hurt comes with love, and people know that. But they choose to love anyway. However, I disagree about mothers always loving their kids, because I know many people who have been rejected by their mothers. And I also don't think that getting hurt always comes with love.
I agree with shannon that when you really love someone your happiness depends on theirs. This is just like Mr. O said: "selflessly elevate some other person above yourself in all things." When you put someone above yourself then you care more for their happiness than for your own.
You can try to define love and you may come close, but I don't think that it is something that can ever really be defined. Love is something that we may never completely understand.
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